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prov·o·ca·tion - something that provokes, arouses, or stimulates. pant - to long eagerly; yearn. a collection of thoughts intended to provoke and inspire. these posts are hoping to encourage people to think, especially Christians, and pant even harder for the waterbrooks of the Lord. If you are not a believer in Christ Jesus, I welcome your perspective and encourage your investigation on these matters.

Wednesday, November 29, 2006

Unholy Laughter

Well, I needed a little break from all the serious thinking having to do with my schoolwork this week. Then I found this (HT: Ben Cole).

17 Comments:

Blogger Rev.J. Theodore Helms said...

Timmy, that was one of the most difficult displays of insanity I have watched that called itself Christian. It was more difficult to watch than a Joel Osteen sermon.

11/29/2006 02:08:00 PM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

No kidding. The couple on the first row was a trip.

I just want to fling my arm around and holller "Drunk again!" sometime and see what happens.

O.k., no I don't.

11/29/2006 02:38:00 PM

 
Blogger Dan Canales said...

That was disturbing... scary even. :(

11/29/2006 03:07:00 PM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

Rejoice in the Lord, again I say rejoice! Phil. 4:4

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. Acts 1:8

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.” Acts 2:1-13

11/29/2006 04:16:00 PM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5:18-21

11/29/2006 04:18:00 PM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

Then he said to them, “Go your way. Eat the fat and drink sweet wine and send portions to anyone who has nothing ready, for this day is holy to our Lord. And do not be grieved, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.” Nehemiah 8:10

You make known to me the path of life; in your presence there is fullness of joy; at your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Psalm 16:11

11/30/2006 09:23:00 AM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. John 15:11

Truly, truly, I say to you, you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. You will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will turn into joy. When a woman is giving birth, she has sorrow because her hour has come, but when she has delivered the baby, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you. In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:20-24

And though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9

The Lord visited Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did to Sarah as he had promised. And Sarah conceived and bore Abraham a son in his old age at the time of which God had spoken to him. Abraham called the name of his son who was born to him, whom Sarah bore him, Isaac. And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God had commanded him. Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him. And Sarah said, “God has made laughter for me; everyone who hears will laugh over me.” And she said, “Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet I have borne him a son in his old age.” Genesis 21:1-7


Dr. John Piper on Joy
Quest: Joy! Found: Christ!
True Christianity: Inexpressible Joy in the Invisible Christ
A Precious Promise: The Outpouring of God's Spirit

11/30/2006 09:43:00 AM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

So Paul, are these proof texts to validate this type of behavior? I am not sure if I am supposed to be taking your seriously or not. There is no question that the Christian is called to a life of joy and fullness of the Holy Spirit, but I am quite confident that it is not evidenced in this type of behavior. Could you elaborate on the purpose of posting these texts (and without commentary)?

11/30/2006 12:12:00 PM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

Timmy,

I found this post to be joyful. I watched the video and didn't see anything unholy or holy about their joy and laughter. I am not a supporter of the late Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland in their Word and Faith theology.

A few years back in rural charismatic church in Oklahoma, my wife and I experience holy laughter, me for the first time, my wife had similar experiences previously in other churches. A few years ago before that experience, back in Minnesota, the pastoral staff of my church experience the Holy Spirit in these ways including having drunk-like experiences and laughter. I was there in person and felt the presence of God myself.

The texts I use are not meant to be proof-texts but just verses to remind us about God's joy for us as a promise.

Depression is hitting the church hard right now. Several members of my church are struggling through it. John Piper has prophetically written about depression in his new book right now. Dan Phillips of Pyromaniacs has posted today on depression. And yet, an antidote to depression would be joy and laughter. How good would it be if all of God's people experience joy and laughter like that? Will we not experience this on YouTube in a greater measure when we get to heaven?

Consider these verses.
A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. Proverbs 17:22

Behold, God will not reject a blameless man, nor take the hand of evildoers. He will yet fill your mouth with laughter, and your lips with shouting. Job 8:20-21

Then our mouth was filled with laughter, and our tongue with shouts of joy; then they said among the nations, “The Lord has done great things for them.” Psalm 126:2

Paul in College Station, Texas

11/30/2006 01:40:00 PM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

Paul,

Thanks for the quick reply. I must say, however, that I have to disagree with you on this one. I understand that people experience all kinds of things these days in churches while at other times churches have no experience of God whatsoever! I believe the way to settle to matter is to subject your experiences to the lens of Scripture and allow the truths in the Word of God determine what is acceptable or not. We cannot judge truth by our experiences but our experiences by the all-authoritative, fully sufficient, Word of God. Having said that, I do not see in evidence of this type of behavior in Scripture.

Furthermore, the argument made from Pentecost was the interpretation of the people watching. Are we to say the Pharisees' interpretation that Jesus is a devil is true? The weight of biblical warrant lies not in the perception of the unregenerate crowd but rather the revelation of God's Word.

I too have been in several charismatic churches where people have been "slain in the Spirit" or others received "a word of prophecy," but I have not been in a place where it has happened to determine whether this is biblical or not. Some will say, "You can't knock it until you have experienced it." I say, "Yes I can. The Scripture is final authority."

Anyway. I don't want to delve into a deep theological discussion on the matter, only to say that I find no biblical support for such practices, and while I respect the free expressions of worship in charistmatic churches where many baptists are dead and rotted out, that freedom comes with restrictions and must be discerned by the Spirit of truth who gave us the Scriptures.

Anyway. I hope you don't mind me disagreeing, but I want to make it clear that I do not endorse this behavior and don't want to mislead any of my readings to thinking such. Take care man, and I will get back to you on that email you sent me earlier.

tnb

11/30/2006 04:00:00 PM

 
Blogger Paul Schafer said...

Timmy,

I have no problem with your disagreement with me on this. As you might notice in my last reply, I wasn't building a defence for the practice of it, but merely stating that I have experienced it and didn't see anything that would be considered sinful or defiling in nature to warrant it any unholy thing. I see no direct scripture saying this experience is legit nor do I see any scripture saying this experience is not legit. So there is no point of arguing from silence. All I can say, when I experienced it, it didn't lead me to sin but to glorify and praise God.
Paul

11/30/2006 04:19:00 PM

 
Blogger Broadstone said...

This is where Jonathan Edwards is so helpful. See his "Religious Affections."

He saw all kinds of odd manifestations and raised "affections"/emotions in is day during the great awakening. Many said it was just fanaticism others argued that without it there was no true religion.

Edwards can be/has been used by both sides.

Most important however with Edwards is his very scriptural reply. So that, it is not simply an argument from silence.

I mention Edwards on this because his reply to critics and propents was the most thoroughgoing on the topic.

In "Religious Affections" you come away praying for more truer and fervent affections for Christ on one hand and more critical and circumspect,scripturally, about what is truly spiritual affection.

Great discussion.

Kelly B

12/01/2006 06:22:00 AM

 
Blogger pregador27 said...

For anyone not to see the blasphemy and demonic underpinnings to this "movement" requires a checking of any Biblical discernment at all.

The "drunkeness" is nothing but either psychological manipulation, demonic influence or show. And I have been in several churches where this was occurring. I saw Rodney Howard Browne in his early days and went to the Benny Hinn show in Tampa in 1991. Ephesians 5.18 is a perfect example of a verse that calls for the opposite of what this movement uses it for. Context of Scripture refutes the laugh movement.

How does drunkeness glorify God? Spiritual or other? Drunkeness is condemned by God. We are called to be sober. This movement is a mockery of a God who will not be mocked.

Kenneth Hagin is now dead, apparently unable to heal himself- I doubt he's laughing now. I expect he's wailing based on the fruit of his "ministry" annd teaching. (Or should I say false teaching?)

The verses of joy in the Bible are valid, no doubt. The specticle on this video are not joy but folly. Choose the wide road to destruction with Hagin, Copeland, Browne, etc.

And these jokers are a far cry from Piper and Edwards! This is a far cry from the holiness called for by God in the Bible. A holiness largely missing in the Church in the USA and around the world. Truly there is only a remnant.

12/02/2006 10:26:00 AM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

Kelly,

Great insight bro. The Edwarsian heritage is laiden with intellectual gravitas and fervent devotion and bears evidence of men who profoundly experienced God.

Pregador27,

Well said. We live in a day where discernment in the church is sorely lacking. We need to "test the spirits" as John exhorted us (1 John 4:1).

12/02/2006 09:02:00 PM

 
Blogger BSC said...

Timmy:

You have no idea how hard it was for me to keep from hollering "drunk again" at today's roundtable meeting at Cornerstone Baptist Church. I nearly did it, just for those who might have been watching via webfeed.

BSC

12/05/2006 05:58:00 PM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

BSC,

That would have been great man. Good to hear from you. Hope everything went well.

tnb

12/05/2006 06:17:00 PM

 
Blogger Jim said...

That is simply horrific...

12/13/2006 04:50:00 PM

 

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