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prov·o·ca·tion - something that provokes, arouses, or stimulates. pant - to long eagerly; yearn. a collection of thoughts intended to provoke and inspire. these posts are hoping to encourage people to think, especially Christians, and pant even harder for the waterbrooks of the Lord. If you are not a believer in Christ Jesus, I welcome your perspective and encourage your investigation on these matters.

Wednesday, November 15, 2006

Who Said It?

Here's the quote:

“God’s knowledge of the future doesn’t determine the future anymore than our knowledge of the past determines the past. He just knows it.”
Now I know this one is a hard one to guess, so I am going to tell you where you can listen to it yourself. Go here and scroll the time toggle over to the 01:18:55 mark. Do you know who else makes statements like this (other than Dick Lincoln at the Greensboro pastor's conference)? HINT: One of them taught at NOBTS at one point in his career.

10 Comments:

Blogger Brian Megilligan said...

Hmmm..that quote makes my head hurt. Doesn't it imply that God's knowledge of the future is somewhat fatalistic and out of his control?

11/15/2006 10:30:00 PM

 
Blogger Alex F said...

Judging from the URL on the link, I'd say either Jerry Vines or Johnny Hunt.

11/15/2006 10:49:00 PM

 
Blogger Nick Kennicott said...

Hunt

11/16/2006 12:07:00 AM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

The quote was indeed from Dr. Vines' message.

But who else makes these kinds of statements about God's foreknowledge?

Dick Lincoln (I would argue) unintentionally argued this position in his Greensboro message.

Another hint:

His first name rhymes with "stark."

11/16/2006 12:22:00 PM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

Brian,

This type of treatment to God's foreknowledge is very weak if not empty definition. Having to accept the concept, they deny the substance of it.

Foreknowledge is determinative, but Arminians would not have it be so since libertarian will necessitates the power of contrary choice. You cannot chose otherwise (contra causal freedom) if your decision is known beforehand by God. So either you alter your view of God's foreknowlege or you alter your view of human freedom. The fundamental issue here is determinism vs. indeterminism. The Scriptures make plain that in the providence and governance of God, there is nothing that is indeterminate. His sovereignty is meticulous and exhaustive, especially in salvation.

Ironically, though I don't believe Dr. Vines would admit it, he is arguing that God is sovereign in every facet of life and creation - except salvation.

So yeah, that quote was quite alarming to me as well.

11/16/2006 12:29:00 PM

 
Blogger Jeremy Burrage said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11/16/2006 01:57:00 PM

 
Blogger Rev. Scott Welch said...

Timmy,

But remember, we Calvinists must stop taking God's sovereignty to an extreme. Too bad Ergun doesn't rhyme with Stark...I'd guess him.

:)

11/17/2006 01:58:00 PM

 
Blogger jeff said...

Clark Pinnock?

11/18/2006 12:01:00 PM

 
Blogger Travis Hilton said...

I'll take a stab...Clark Pinnock.

Oh no, somebody beat me to it. I guess no free t-shirt for me. :)

11/18/2006 12:08:00 PM

 
Blogger Timmy said...

Ding Ding Ding!

We have two winners. Clark Pinnock is the man.

Now is it surprising to you that two leading Southern Baptist ministers have made statements from the pulpit that are Open Theistic in nature? Whether they were aware of it or not, the fact is that they are of that nature.

In the meantime, the leaders of our convention are trying to figure out the how much alcoholic content was in oinos.

How much does our knowledge of the past determine the past? It doesn't whatsoever. In the same way, Dr. Vines argues that God's knowledge of the future has absolutely no implications on the future. It is an empty definition and tantamount to saying that cannot know the future, for the outcome is the same in both positions.

When SBC leaders make statements like this, pastors and professors alike should wake up and realize that this kind of theology is not a Freudian slip but a slippery slope of bad theology.

11/20/2006 11:07:00 AM

 

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